Looking to buy a reliable car. Halp!

"Stupidru" (Schm1an) 10/30/2014 at 09:10 • Filed to: None

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Well my last 2 cars have been nothing but nightmares for those of us who don't like to spend money on our cars, so my wife and I are looking for a car that's reliable but that we can also buy straight-up without a loan. It needs to get us through Wisconsin winters, be able to haul a small trailer if I need to go to Home Depot, 2 mountain bikes (I have a hitch rack that I'd like to still be able to use), and a dog.

Our options are an XJ Cherokee, an H6 Outback (98-03), and a bugeye WRX.

...A buddy of mine recommended an SVT Focus... thoughts on those?

What would you choose and why?

Nibby > Stupidru 10/30/2014 at 09:13

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H6 outback because practical as fuck

Stupidru > Nibby 10/30/2014 at 09:17

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Honestly I think that's what it'll end up being. The H6 is reliable, the car has heated leather, 2 sunroofs, wood at stare at on the dash, and a bigger back seat for kiddos when they come

Mattbob > Stupidru 10/30/2014 at 09:18

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I was about to suggest an XJ before i read it as one of your options. Just watch out for rust. They are super reliable, and when things do break, parts are really cheap and easy to install. Just know you will have to deal with rust with any supension repair. Still, way easier to work on than a subaru.

Stupidru > Mattbob 10/30/2014 at 09:21

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Well our Subarus were always easy to work on aside from changing spark plugs. I've had rust in my eyes more times than I care to admit, so I finally got wise and bought a pair of Uvex strap-on goggles!

samsmith > Stupidru 10/30/2014 at 09:21

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Well from those options it really looks like your only choice is the H6. I'm not sure if you'd want to pull a trailer with the flat 4 of the WRX

Mattbob > Stupidru 10/30/2014 at 09:24

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I'm not saying they are hard, there is just more space on the jeep and you don't have to jack it up for as much stuff. I just replaced a track bar and sway bar end links on mine without jacking it up at all. Its a stock 2000 xj. Of course you do tend to get more stuck bolts on a jeep. I don't know how but bolts like to snap on that thing.

*edit* oh yeah, and parts for all that (moog trackbar and oem links) something like $80 on amazon.

Nibby > Stupidru 10/30/2014 at 09:26

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The XJ is a bit rough for a family hauler and it gets shit mileage.

Rock Bottom > Stupidru 10/30/2014 at 09:27

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I'm an unashamed XJ fanboi. They're dirt cheap, tough as nails (good nails, not those cheap Chinese ones), and can be customized in every way you can imagine for almost nothing. Plus, a comparable condition Subaru will cost you like 3 times as much because people seem to like cars that sound like broken lawnmowers with a misfire and a rod knock.

Get the Jeep. It's not fuel efficient (mine gets about 17 mixed), but it does everything you want with minimal hassle. Plus they just just look good. And when they break, you can fix them with $15 in parts and some junk you found in your garage.

If you need inspiration, here's a pic of mine pulling logs out of the woods for a bonfire. The tractor couldn't drag this one big one out, but the Jeep in 4-low dragged it just fine.

My citroen won't start > Stupidru 10/30/2014 at 09:31

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XJ only if its a Jag, H6 is the best choice

MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s > Stupidru 10/30/2014 at 09:34

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If you can find an XJ that's in good shape (aka not much rust) and not too many miles i would go for that

Stupidru > Mattbob 10/30/2014 at 09:37

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Ugh, been there, done that. Had a bolt snap off on my LGT's swaybar bushing bracket, and one snap off on my Impreza's brake caliper bracket and I still haven't learned to anti-seize before I start

Stupidru > Rock Bottom 10/30/2014 at 09:39

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You make a convincing argument...

adamftw > Nibby 10/30/2014 at 09:39

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H6 isn't much better. stock XJs will get low 20s on the highway.

boobytrapsandtreasure > Stupidru 10/30/2014 at 09:41

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Ford Explorer (Mk2 or Mk3) with a V6 and real 4WD. They are reliable, capable and inexpensive to purchase and maintain.

Rock Bottom > Stupidru 10/30/2014 at 09:42

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Ha ha! Remember, I am just a zealot!

swansong, rockin' the wagons > Stupidru 10/30/2014 at 09:53

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Used to own an SVT Focus, and I'd definitely recommend it. You can find them anywhere from $2k to $7k depending on condition. They're surprisingly roomy inside, especially with the back seats folded. Good use of space. Available in a 5 door from 03-04. Reliability is quite good, although there are some particulars to watch out for compared to the regular Zetec engine. First, it's an interference engine, so changing the timing belt every 80k is critical. The intake manifold runner likes to act up, and my car was picky about oxygen sensors, as well as battery condition/connections. It does require premium fuel as well; I averaged just shy of 30 mpg. Total beast in winter with snow tires, only limited by the front lip height really (but then you get to plow snow, fun!) I always say that in the dollars-per-smile department, it's hard to beat an SVT Focus.

Stupidru > swansong, rockin' the wagons 10/30/2014 at 10:01

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Are they really that good? I mean if I could get something fun AND reliable while still being economical, I'd be all in. How often would you say you spent working on it? I'm not afraid to get my hands dirty, but if it gets to be to the point of working on something every week, then I'd tend to shy away from those types of cars

swansong, rockin' the wagons > Stupidru 10/30/2014 at 10:40

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A lot of my work was for fun, doing upgrades and such. Maintenance/problem wise, I spent a day or two maybe every other month tinkering with something. It had 140k miles, so there were things to be done. Easy car to work on (other than the alternator!), as long as it isn't to rusty underneath. There are a few with will over 250k miles on them.

And yes they really are a ton of fun. Great balance, amazingly communicative steering, good 6 speed manual, strong and high revving motor, good exhaust note, decent interior and tons of available options. Take one for a drive if you can. I see a handful of listings on WI craigslists right now. (I'm from WI as well, Appleton area).

Suuuubaru > Stupidru 10/30/2014 at 10:45

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I highly recomment the Outback. Biased, maybe, but the build quality of those Subies is genuinely impeccable. Mine is rusting apart, but if it was a lesser car it would have rusted apart years ago in this climate. Also, I have the 2.5 and have yet to have mechanical issues (car has been in family since new in '03 - never broken down once). The 3.0 is even better, because it doesn't have the head gasket issues of the 2.2 or 2.5

Stupidru > swansong, rockin' the wagons 10/30/2014 at 11:21

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I'll have to keep an eye out for these. Thanks!

Stupidru > Suuuubaru 10/30/2014 at 11:21

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No HG issue and no timing belt. Aside from replacing spark plugs I've heard nothing but good things about the H6s

Manwich - now Keto-Friendly > Stupidru 10/30/2014 at 13:36

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I think the Outback wagon is the best option of the three you listed. But the 2004 and earlier models have a greater rate of head gasket failures than 2005+ models.

If you're on a budget, need space and need something practical, I wouldn't bother with a used WRX (too many have been abused and they need premium fuel) or the XJ Cherokee (they're getting old and guzzle gas compared to the Subaru).

And an SVT Focus is fun, but it sounds like bad advice given what you said you need out of a car.

I suggest you consider the following vehicles (and I'm giving this advice from the perspective of someone who lives in the Toronto area and probably has to deal with as much snow as you do):

-2004 to 2007 Ford Focus Wagon with the 16V 2L engine. Avoid the PZEV version.

-Chrysler PT Cruiser... Manual transmission only. Non-turbo only. The automatic on these sucks which is why so many people think the PT sucks. Also the turbo isn't bad, but if you're on a budget, stick with the non-turbo. These are practical, have easily removable rear seats which makes them excellent for hauling bulky things (give the car's size) and they feel peppy and get good fuel economy with the manual. But they don't feel that refined and the ride is firm... which I like, but many people don't. Also the 2006+ models were redesigned/cheapened with more hard plastics.

-2003-2007 Subaru Impreza Wagon with the SOHC EJ253 H4 non-turbo engine. The older DOHC ones aren't as good as the newer SOHC ones. And it doesn't need premium fuel like the turbo H4 does.

-2003+ Subaru Forester with the same SOHC EJ253 H4 engine I discussed with the Impreza.

-2005+ Subaru Outback with the same SOHC EJ253 I discussed with the Impreza.

-Ford Escape/Mazda Tribute... ideally with FWD, the 4 cyl and the manual if you want to keep costs down.

-Honda CRV... any year.

-1994-2005 Toyota RAV4. After 2005, they became bigger and fatter. Still good vehicles though.

-Chevrolet HHR - it's like the PT Cruiser, but better if you want an automatic. If you want a manual, then the PT is maybe a bit better. It's also like the PT in that it's very practical, but also has the "feels cheap" in some ways that doesn't bother me, but bothers some people.

-Mazda 5 van. Yep... a minivan. Practical, cheap, drives well and you can get it with a manual. If you care about space and utility, this should be your #1 pick. And while it doesn't have AWD, just get a decent set of snow tires for it and you should be fine.

-Scion xB - any year... but the 2008+ ones are bigger

-Kia Rondo - 4 cyl only. The V6 had some issues. It's like the Mazda 5 van, but without the sliding doors and has more power.

JEM > adamftw 10/30/2014 at 14:25

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Was just going to say this. The XJ was rated for 23 or 24 highway when new. Mine is not lifted, a 5 speed manual, and I always get 20mpg combined. Not the best, but not the gas pig people make them out to be.

JEM > Stupidru 10/30/2014 at 14:28

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You really can't go wrong buying a Jeep Cherokee. Properly taken care of, they should go to 300,000 miles. Improperly taken care of, they should go to 300,000 miles. The 4.0L six is durable as heck, and they are nowhere near the gas pigs people make them out to be. I consistently get ~20mpg combined city/highway/stop-n-go traffic. You'll probably do about 5mpg better in an older Subaru. The Jeep will be waaay cheaper and easier to fix, and you won't have to worry about the timing belt/head gasket thing every 100K.

That all said, how about a Nissan Xterra? Those are pretty similar to a Cherokee but definitely more modern and almost as durable.

Stupidru > JEM 10/30/2014 at 16:26

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I never thought about an Xterra, but I did really like them when I was a kid. I'll take a look- thanks!

SVTyler > Stupidru 10/30/2014 at 18:29

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As the current owner of an SVT Focus I agree with everything swansong said but there are a few things to keep in mind if you're set on an SVTF. Parts are about 30% more expensive than regular Focus and even dealerships sometimes don't distinguish between the SVT and non-SVT cars so you might get the wrong thing if you don't do your research. Ford's even stopped making some parts so you'll have to go aftermarket for a few things.

They also suffer from the WRX effect where a lot of them have been driven hard and not properly maintained, so you can have the potential for a problem child down the road if you buy the wrong one (ask me how I know). Combine that with the fact that the car was designed in a rush so earlier ones have a few quirks (high idle and electrical gremlins being the most common) and it can be temperamental, to put it kindly. All the problems I've had have been little things here and there that anyone could easily do themselves, but it's definitely not an oil change and pads kind of car.

Don't get me wrong, the SVT Focus is a great freaking car and I love mine to death and would buy mine again in a hearbeat knowing what I know now, just wanted to give you some more perspective. Any more questions just ask, there's a few other guys on here who own an SVTF (DabofOppo and Sl040 being two of them).

adamftw > JEM 10/30/2014 at 20:37

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My buddy and his gf just took her 5 spd XJ on 33s (auto axles w/ 3.55 gears) down to Overland Expo East a couple weeks ago with an ARB roof top tent on top. They averaged 23 effing MPG. Oh, and the thing has over 300k on it, and they were towing a KLR650 on a lightweight trailer. They are insanely well made vehicles.

Stupidru > SVTyler 10/30/2014 at 21:04

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I appreciate the feedback! The SVTF is on my list, but there don't seem to be a ton around. That, coupled with the fact that the only ones close enough to visit aren't ones I would buy as they're all riced out, means that I don't think I'll even get to experience what they're like. I figure I have about 2-3 weeks until I'll sell my car, so maybe I'll change my tone and just drive the snot out of some ricer's car to get a perspective on how the SVTF drives

SVTyler > Stupidru 10/30/2014 at 21:18

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You're welcome. Forgot to mention the ricers, there seem to be more modded Focii than not anymore :| Like swansong I'd recommend a test drive of one of the more tastefully-modded ones if at all possible; Ford only made 14,003 of the SVT cars so it's not like you'd get a lot of chances to try one out.

Stupidru > SVTyler 10/30/2014 at 21:25

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The next town over there's one with a carbon fiber hood, and not another for an hour away. 90 minutes away I could go see this gem but that's a bit far

http://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/…

SVTyler > Stupidru 10/30/2014 at 22:37

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I'd say go test-drive the one the next town over and if you like how it drives maybe drop by the dealership for another go? I'd feel out the private seller first (there are some absolute idiots that drive these cars) but if it seems legit I'd wager it's worth a look. That 2004 looks extremely clean apart from the rims; that's a European Appearance Package car which is the top-spec version, heated Recaro's, block heater, TC, HID's, the lot. Plus Ford finally ironed out the kinks by 2004 so it'd likely be the least problematic model year you could look at. TBH a ninety minute drive for a car like that might just be worth it; hell, the SVT cars are so much fun to drive that it would be worth looking at either just for the experience IMO.

Stupidru > SVTyler 10/30/2014 at 23:01

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I got the feeling that one was special because I noticed the projectors and the Recaros. Do you have any experience with fitting a car seat in the back of these? What about cargo space in the back?

Thanks- I really appreciate all the info you're able to give!

SVTyler > Stupidru 10/30/2014 at 23:44

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Glad to be helping. I have a 3-door but it's the same interior layout. In Europe the first-gen Focii were hugely popular because of how much space they had; they were designed to be a family's main car and were considered more roomy than their competitors, and the five-door will just make accessing all that space easier. You can fit a car seat with room to spare (I have 6-foot-something friends who don't mind sitting in the back seats) and the seats are pretty high up so it'll be a piece of cake to deal with little kids.

As far as cargo space goes I've moved the contents of my dorm and apartment in the back and fit my winter rims and tires and a 4x4x2 tool chest at the same time with room to spare. Only little niggles are that the seats don't fold completely flat (damn near it, though) and you have to take the headrests off each time. Also because it's the EAP package it has the Audiophile sound system; great sound for 2004, but it has an eight-inch subwoofer that protrudes about six inches into the cargo space above the left rear wheel well. I imagine with the five-door the sub is almost a non-issue in regards to moving things around back there but again something to think about.

Also as far as fuel economy goes these engines are actually pretty decent. They're rated 21/25 but most people get around 27 city and 30+ highway. Does take premium, though. And as a fun fact the engine was developed with direct help from Cosworth for added Jalop points if you keep track of those.